PRESS CONFERENCE OF
NATO SPOKESMAN JAMIE SHEA
AND AIR COMMODORE DAVID WILBY, SHAPE
MONDAY, 5TH APRIL 1999

Jamie Shea

Ladies and Gentlemen, good afternoon to everybody. Welcome to today's
briefing. Today I will ask Air Commodore Wilby to begin, and then I will
follow on in the usual way, so David please.

Air Commodore Wilby

Good afternoon Ladies and Gentlemen.

NATO has escalated its air campaign aimed at strategically degrading the
FRY military capability. With clear weather at last, all Allied aircraft
last night returned to their bases, after successfully engaging their
targets in and around Belgrade and throughout FRY.

NATO also increased efforts to assist in addressing the disaster and human
misery created by President Milosevic in Kosovo and exported to the
neighbouring countries. NATO military forces on the ground in Albania and
FYROM are conducting operations in direct support of the governments' and
human relief organisations' activities; we are doing this to alleviate the
human suffering and to ensure the safety and well being of the deportees
until they are allowed to return to their homes.

We have established a number of centres with "tented villages" and these
are now beginning to fill. Procedures with the Macedonian Government to
ease the plight of the refugees are being evolved but food has become an
urgent requirement. The humanitarian relief operations in Albania are also
reaching critical proportions. NATO helicopters have already started
relief operations. Aid continues to flow in from around the world and some
31 flights are scheduled for today.

In regard to ground activity in Kosovo, the UCK resistance is, in the main,
limited to Western Kosovo. The remaining pockets are under heavy pressure
from elements of the 125th Motorised Brigade, the 252nd Armoured Brigade
and the MUP. The paramilitary activity that I reported yesterday is still
going on in the area shown.

The forced expulsion of ethnic Albanians from their homes and their
subsequent deportation has not stopped; the FRY military and Special Police
continue their ethnic cleansing with their customary brutality. Yesterday,
we were able to produce a sequence of 3 images of the Kosovan village of
Glodane which gave us damning confirmation of this activity.

The first image, which I am able to release to you, showed us Serbian
armour that was working in and around the village - this is identified by
the circles on the left side, and bottom, of the screen. On the right of
the screen you can see the consequences of the security force action with
civilians and vehicles assembled in a holding area, - presumably awaiting
transportation to the border.

Our second shot showed that the civilians had disappeared and, later, a
final image clearly showed that the village had been set on fire. This was
harrowing evidence of how these Serbian military units are being employed
to force villagers from their homes.

Turning to our air operations, an improvement in the weather enabled us to
make full use of all our assets. As you can see from the graphic, we hit a
comprehensive number of targets throughout the full range of military
categories. These included petroleum production and storage, airfields,
air defences, ammunition storage and bridges. I would like to reiterate,
every one of our targets is carefully chosen and vetted to ensure it's
military significance, and each attack is planned with meticulous scrutiny
to keep collateral damage to civilian property and loss of life to the
absolute minimum.

In Belgrade, we also hit an important HQ of the FRY air defence forces. I
told you yesterday of the destruction of the Security Institute and, today,
I can show you before and after reconnaissance pictures of that target. As
you can see, it was very heavily damaged.

We also targeted Serbian forces in the field. These next 2 slides in
Kosovo give you an indication of the forces we are trying to interdict.
Careful scrutiny showed us a field-deployed surface to air missile system
and its support vehicles together with numerous armoured fighting vehicles.
The second image pointed us to more deployed equipment - both target sets
which we were subsequently able to attack.

There was considerable SAM activity and anti-aircraft fire yesterday, but
all our aircraft returned safely. We had no airborne claims but believe we
may have damaged several MIGs on the ground.

The weather forecast remains favourable and we expect to continue to
intensify our operations. We will capitalise on the clear weather to
attack strategic and operational targets throughout the operational area
but, in particular, we will focus our attention on fielded forces in
Kosovo. However, this is no easy task. You may remember I described
earlier in the week the cat and mouse tactics being employed by Serbian
armoured units. They are taking every advantage of deserted buildings and
terrain to camouflage their positions; nonetheless, we are putting
considerable efforts into this critical task and I expect that these
attacks will soon severely disrupt Serbian military and Special Police
operations on the ground.

I have one cockpit video today which is self-explanatory, but you will see
at the end of the clip two bombs coming in from the right-hand side.

Thank you.

Jamie Shea

David, thank you very much, I would like to focus in my briefing on the
humanitarian situation. As you know NATO wants to be a good samaritan to
all of the refugees and displaced persons that have been forcibly expelled
from Kosovo in recent days. The Secretary General, yesterday, spoke once
again to Kofi Annan, the United Nations Secretary General and he has also
spoken to President Kligerov in Skopja and to the Prime Minister of Albania
in Tirana.

Yesterday we had a very successful and very original meeting here,
co-chaired by NATO and the European Union to coordinate the efforts on the
military side and also on the civilian side. NATO, the European Union, the
Western European Union, the OSCE, Council of Europe, and of course the
United Nations High Commission for Refugees participated in this meeting
which went on all day. We shared information. We agreed on the need for
coordinated planning and we agreed on the need to minimise red tape and
bureaucracy and get action happening fast vis-a-vis the refugee situation.
There is a follow-up meeting beginning this afternoon at the European
Union. NATO of course, is participating. And another meeting tomorrow, in
Geneva, hosted by the UNHCR, again, with NATO participation. As you will
recall, NATO has a liaison team now in Geneva.

At the same time, yesterday, SHAPE has presented to NATO two concepts of
operations for direct NATO military support, both in Albania and in the
former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. The first of these concepts of
operations concerns air transportation and the coordination of a
humanitarian airlift into Albania and into the former Yugoslav Republic of
Macedonia.

The second one concerns the deployment of the ACE Mobile Force Land
Headquarters, the basic elements of which are in Germany, to Albania in the
next few days, to serve as the forward operating headquarters for the
coordination of NATO's military assistance to the Government of Albania and
to the UNHCR on the spot. This headquarters, the ACE Mobile Force Land
Headquarters, has been placed on a 24 hours' notice to move, so that it
will be able therefore, to ship out in the next few days. At the same time
we are actively planning for a small, but significant NATO troop presence
in Albania under this headquarters, and to be able to provide immediate
practical assistance. Already, certain advance elements, however, have
been deployed on a national basis in advance of the formal activation order
for this Force from the North Atlantic Council. There are some Greek
forces, some Italian forces and the United States has also now sent a force
of 35 that have arrived at Tirana airport and are already installing
equipment to offload refugee supplies from incoming aircraft.

The tasks that we foresee in Albania are essentially what we are also doing
already in the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. That is to say to
act as an organised focal point for liaison and coordination to be able to
offload supplies; to transport them rapidly to the areas of greatest need;
to ensure storage; and of course to distribute directly, where necessary,
to the refugees. We are also actively engaged in camp-site location and
our aim is to both run and coordinate the humanitarian air-bridge into
those two countries.

Now the ARCC - the Headquarters of the Allied Rapid Reaction Corps - in
Kumonovo, in the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, under General
Jackson, is now in full swing, assisting the Government there and the local
relief organisations, as well as the international relief organisations, to
deal with the inflow of refugees into the former Yugoslav Republic of
Macedonia.

The NATO forces have already helped to set up a transit centre at Brasda,
with the capacity to handle 80-100 thousand refugees. General Jackson is
coordinating the airlift from NATO countries into Skopja. There were 13
flights yesterday, and as David said, we anticipate 31 flights today. NATO
forces are also helping to equip the 2 airports at Skopja and Okred with a
24 hour capability, so that airlift can continue throughout the night if
necessary, as well as during the day. 200 tons of supplies of relief food,
pharmaceuticals, medicine have now been moved up to the border area and
General Jackson and his men and women are also engaged in finishing the
construction of 4 tent cities for the relief, of course, of the refugees.

At the same time, over the last 24 hours, our Euro-Atlantic Disaster
Response Coordination Centre has stepped up the momentum of its operations.
In particular it has arranged for 5 Italian helicopters to be provided to
Albania for shuttle transport up to the border, and it is also now working
with the UNHCR to provide 3 transport aircraft directly to move UNHCR
stocks from Western Europe into the region, and Belgium has already agreed
to provide 2 out of the 3 aircraft.

One very heartening new development since yesterday is that NATO's Partners
also want to be involved in this effort and they have agreed also to
coordinate their contributions through our Euro-Atlantic Disaster Response
Coordination Centre.

At the same time, NATO is working with the UNHCR's Air Operation Cell in
Geneva to coordinate the humanitarian air bridge in the widest sense.

So as you can see, NATO is now fully mobilised behind this effort. There
is a lot we can do and there is a lot that we are doing and we will
continue to do. But of course we also realise that the situation remains
no less precarious than it was this time yesterday. 44,000 Kosovar
Albanians left Kosovo yesterday, and of those 34,000 went to Albania and
about 10,000 were processed into the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.
This situation is of course creating congestion and bottle-necks at the
border-crossing points. 360,000 have now left Kosovo over the last 2 weeks
and the total of displaced persons since the crisis began one year ago is
now beginning to move up steadily towards the 1 million mark. It currently
stands at 831,000 people.

The Deputy Secretary General of NATO, Ambassador Balanzino has started his
trip this morning to 4 of the neighbouring countries. He has arrived in
Bucharest, Romania, for consultations with the Government. He will be
moving on later today to Bulgaria and then on to Skopje and finally to Tirana.

Now yesterday I was asked a question about the situation of refugees and
humanitarian assistance in Montenegro. I can report that the UNHCR does
have a very small presence in Montenegro, together with some international
relief organisations, but of course not comparable to what we see in the
other two countries, and many of the refugees in Montenegro are in fact
also in transit towards Northern Albania.

Finally, I would like to come back to the two Spanish journalists that I
referred to a couple of days ago. We are very worried about them.
Apparently the indications we have are that they have been detained by the
Serb authorities in Pristina. The Spanish Government of course is making
every effort to have them released and NATO shares those sentiments
entirely. We expect them to be released.

So. I think that's what I have by way of an introduction. Lets go directly
to questions.

Mark Laity, BBC

I have a question to both of you. First of all to Air Commodore Wilby.
You said you had 3 pictures. We only saw 1. If there are the other 2
available could we see them, perhaps even in this briefing? And then, on a
more substantive issue. You talked about now attacking more forces in
Kosovo. Are you significantly attacking fielded forces such as tanks, such
as units deployed in the field? Are we actually now seeing evidence that
you are attacking those front-line forces? And are you seeing any evidence
that your isolation strategy, trying to starve them of fuel, is actually
working?

And to Jamie, we have heard a lot about the war aims and a certain degree
of confusion over them. Have we now got any formal endorsement of what the
Secretary General said, which seems to have been identical to what the NATO
members of the Contact Group said? So is that now the position of the
Alliance, seeing as it was repeated once again by Robin Cook this morning?

Air Commodore Wilby

Let me take the first one. If you were very careful when you listened to
my script, I did say "that I was able to release to you". I'm afraid the
other 2 images I cannot release to you for sensitive reasons.

In terms of - are we hitting the fielded forces on the ground hard enough -
the answer is, we are just starting to hit them. The weather, as you know,
has only just cleared to give us a little more chance of hitting them hard.
And we are now getting our tactics right, making sure that we have got all
our forces in there. We have ramped up the number of sorties that we are
doing and we are prosecuting and taking the fight to them very hard, and I
think that you will find very direct results coming very shortly.

As to being able to give you hard, concrete evidence. As you will have
probably seen from trying to see the various units that we had circled on
the pictures, unless you have a trained eye, and the right sort of
equipment, it is actually very difficult to make out damage to those sort
of units. But I will try and give you as much information and evidence of
our attacks as soon as I have them to hand.

In terms of our "isolationist policy", as you call it. Yes we are hitting
the fuel dumps hard and yes, we are having direct evidence that we are
causing pain.

Jamie Shea

Mark, I don't believe there is confusion about the Alliance's objectives.
I would not use your term war aims, if you don't mind me raising that,
because I have made it clear all along that we are not at war with anybody
and certainly not with the people of Yugoslavia. But our objectives are
clear and they are consistent. We want a multi-ethnic, democratic Kosovo.
We want the Serb Security Forces to withdraw and to cease, once and for
all, their repressive actions against the Kosovar Albanians. We want
guarantees that all of the displaced persons, deportees, refugees, will be
able to return freely and safely to their homes, and quickly. We want a
political solution in which Belgrade would give the Kosovo people a
far-reaching degree of autonomy and we want to base that political solution
on the Rambouillet Accords and I have given the reasons why in previous
briefings. And finally, it is our firm conviction that the return of the
refugees and the solution to the humanitarian crisis are inconceivable
without an international military presence on the ground in Kosovo, at
least during a transitional period. So there is absolute clarity among all
Allies on those fundamental principles.

Let's go to Paulo please.

Journalist

Thank you Jamie.

I have two questions concerning the US helicopters, Apaches which are
supposed to be sent to the region, or maybe they are already on their way.
First to the Air Commodore, could you tell us what is the effective power
of these helicopters. And, they are followed by 2,000 servicemen, so are
these specialists just for the service of these helicopters, or can they
fulfil even further tasks in the future, I mean within the NATO forces.

And for Jamie, I have a question. I have been told that these helicopters
are supposed to operate from Albania. Is it true, if this is so, is NATO
not afraid that Albania could be this way drawn into the conflict. Thank you.

Air Commodore Wilby

Let me pick up the first. First of all there is a very generous offer from
the United States for a package and that is under active consideration by
NATO. In terms of giving you details of the fire-power that the Apache
would bring to the conflict. You know very well that I have said from the
start that my job is not to release any tactical information that might, in
any way, compromise the tactics that we use in the field, or more
importantly, affect the lives of the aircrew who are carrying out the
attacks. And I plan to do that. In terms of what fire-power it brings.
I'm sure if you pick up the Internet, or Janes, you will find exactly what
that helicopter can bring to a conflict like this.

In terms of the numbers of support people involved, you will know that
unfortunately modern sophisticated aeroplanes require good husbandry and
the numbers that you have heard are associated totally with supporting that
package.


Jamie Shea

The second part of Paulo's question. Paulo, the situation at the moment is
that the Ambassadors are consulting on the deployment of the Apaches and I
do not want to give you a definitive response until their consultations
have concluded, which will by the way, be very, very shortly.

Secondly, on the question of the threat to a Partner country. We have had,
as you know, over the last months, special consultations with Albania, as
we can do under Article 8 of the Partnership Agreement which links us to
Albania. And we have always made clear, even before the question of the
Apaches came up, that NATO would treat with the utmost seriousness any
threat to a Partner country. And I think that that is the clearest
response that I can give you on that one for the time being.

Patricia please.

Patricia Kelly, CNN

Jamie, a follow-up question on the Apaches. It is unclear as to whether
.... you are saying that NATO Ambassadors are consulting on this and the
Air Commodore says that the offer is under active consideration. We've
already heard the British Foreign Secretary welcoming these and talking as
if they're going to be part of the operation. Hasn't NATO already agreed,
given the go-ahead for the six-banded air operation. Why do Ambassadors
need to consult? What is the problem inside the Council? Is there any one
country specifically against the deployment of these?

And for the Air Commodore, can these helicopters operate effectively over
Yugoslav territory without the benefit of close air support teams on the
ground?

Jamie Shea

Ok, Patricia, as I mentioned, and as you know, when the Pentagon last night
announced that the Apaches would be made available, they also announced
that obviously NATO had to go through a process of consultation because
these aircraft are being offered to NATO. And let me first of all state
that we are extremely grateful to the United States for making available
this extremely important capability which is being made available at the
right time. There is no doubt about that. And which will significantly
enhance our ability to go after those ground targets in Kosovo which the
Air Commodore was referring to. But as this offer has been made available
to NATO, obviously NATO Ambassadors have to consult and as I pointed out
there also has to be a consultation with a non-NATO country and obviously
therefore, I wouldn't like to comment in detail until those consultations
have taken place. And there is no difficulty in the Alliance, but we have
to respect obviously the procedures of consultation. So I will have more
to say on that in the coming hours. But that is all I can say for the
time being.

Let's go to the gentleman - sorry - after David has answered this question
of course.



Air Commodore Wilby

I am sure that the Apache helicopter is capable of operating very
effectively wherever it chooses.

Jamie Shea

Ok, let's now go to the gentleman next to Patricia.

Stars and Strips

>From reports from our reporters in the region they are noticing slowly a
troop build-up of American forces in Macedonia. Notably some airborne
troops, some other troops. I guess this question is going to go to the Air
Commodore. Is NATO slowly building up its forces past this 12,000 point?
And also for Jamie. I guess also from these same reporters noticing that
some of these tents that were erected down in Macedonia are not being
filled. Is there any scheduling for the refugees to go into these tents,
and what is the scheduling for flying refugees out? Thank you.

Air Commodore Wilby

As to your first part of the question, I can assure you that the numbers
that you mention are very carefully adhered to.

Jamie Shea

Ok, that means my part of the question.

On the situation the ARRC Headquarters, that's to say General Jackson, has
focussed his efforts in the last 24 hours, not only on completing these
tent camps that I mentioned, but also on setting up, helping to set up the
processing centre. Those tents are therefore, available and are at the
disposal of the UNHCR and of course of the Government. Naturally, the way
in which they are used depends upon the process of coordination which is
on-going with the Government. But we are certainly making the facilities
available.

That is the first point. The second point on evacuation. I have looked
into this this morning and there were some announcements that evacuations
from the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia would begin already
yesterday. Now I understand that this has not happened, obviously there is
a processing - a process - that has to take place for refugees before they
can be evacuated. The emphasis is on those that need the most urgent
attention. Norway has sent an aircraft to Skopje for this purpose, but
this is not a decision of NATO. NATO has no role to play in the decision
on the evacuations. This is of course, a decision for member Governments,
in terms of receiving the refugees, and it's a decision on the spot for the
local government and the UNHCR in terms of selecting and processing the
people. Obviously, it would be inhumane to send them out of the country in
the condition in which they arrived. So of course this has to be done in
an organised way. And to the extent that I have more details on that I
will give them to you, but that's all I've got for you for the time being.
Let's go to the Gentleman at the back there.

Journalist

A clarification on the political aims. Do you need a political agreement
in order to deploy a protection force.

Jamie Shea

Yes, the NATO policy is that a protection force will be deployed in the
context of a political agreement. Yes.

Ok, with all these hands up, I think the lady here.

CBS New

Emma Bonino, the EU Humanitarian Acting Commissioner, talked yesterday, or
called yesterday, for the creation of enclaves for the refugees, not just
in Macedonia and Albania but also in neighbouring Romania, Bulgaria and
Hungary. Does NATO support that kind of idea? Are any approaches being
made, particularly considering the Deputy Secretary General is now in
Bulgaria and Romania?

Jamie Shea

Yes, well NATO, as I've said is a Good Samaritan, but we are not a refugee
organisation. These are not decisions to be made by us. These are
decisions to be made by the UNHCR which is the competent authority, in
conjunction with local governments and other governments. We are prepared
to give our active support to whatever decision may be made.

Now, clearly, we want the refugees to be able to go back quickly. Those
NATO governments which have agreed to receive refugees have made it clear
that this is purely on a temporary basis. There is absolutely no intention
whatever of sanctioning Milosovic's ethnic cleansing. The great majority
of the refugees will remain and will be cared for in the region. Those
that are taken out because of urgent medical or other reasons, and of
course to ease the enormous burden that is currently on Albania and the
former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, will be accepted, as I said on a
temporary basis and the idea is that they should go back as soon as we have
established a durable peace. In fact they want to go back, that is very,
very clear and there are precedents, I am glad to say, for the rapid
resettlement of refugees once political conditions have improved. So I
think we are hopeful that they will all be back in their homes before too
long.

Let's go to a question from the gentleman there in the middle, please.

David Scott, ABC News

For the Air Commodore, there was sort of a race against time going on given
the pace of the deportations. Is it your view that the Apaches and the
other equipment can be moved into the region and deployed in time to make a
difference to people on the ground.

Air Commodore Wilby

I don't think that we have ever considered it as a race against time, and
as I have tried to outline to you as the days have gone on that we've had
no time line to follow. Obviously, we want to complete our business as
quickly as we can.

Jamie Shea

Antonio, please.

Journalist

Thank you Jamie. Air Commodore, yesterday you showed us a clip concerning
the troops at UCK very close to the Albanian border. Today you showed it
again, but in the meantime you had ..... and also from the United States in
the shape of 25 Apache helicopters ..... has one thing got to do with the
other? Is this really to help, because this type of engine provides to go
closer and probably to help the UCK against the 2 brigades that you just
showed us. And Jamie, bringing those helicopters into Albania, if the
Albanian Government says yes, means NATO is going a little bit further now.
Does this cover PfP or is it out of it? And how you can you cope in this
new political mood? Thank you.

Air Commodore Wilby

I think it was you who came up with the encirclement scenario yesterday.
Well, I am afraid just like that one, this one is just a coincidence.

Jamie Shea

Antonio, this is not the sort of activity which is in the normal scope of
Partnership for Peace of course, so it would depend on bilateral
arrangements between NATO and Albania. But again, as I've said,
consultations are on-going at the moment and I really don't want to say
anything more on this issue - you will understand why - until the
consultations have concluded.

Ah, yes, let's go to the lady next to Antonio.

Journalist

Concerning the security in the region. How could NATO act in the case of
threats to the non-partner countries like Croatia and Bosnia, for example?

Jamie Shea

Perhaps I could take that, if I may David, because it is a political topic
on which there has been a lot of activity here over the last few weeks. In
fact we have included Croatia and Bosnia Herzegovina in our group of
neighbouring countries which we are actively talking to during the crisis,
even though Croatia and Bosnia Herzegovina are not members of the
Partnership for Peace at the present time. So we are, therefore, seeking
to have channels of communication with them as well, they meet here at NATO
Headquarters with Ambassador Klaiber, the Assistant Secretary General for
Political Affairs, virtually every day, or every other day, for regular
updates on all of the NAC - North Atlantic Council - consultations. So
they are, therefore, included in this process.

Doug please.

Journalist

A question for both please, beginning with Air Commodore Wilby.

You showed the sequence and Glodana village. What I would like to know is
were NATO aircraft, after these villages were moved out, able to attack the
units which conducted this cleansing or were they allowed to go on up the
road and do the next village?

And for Jamie a related question.

At the rate of expulsions that you describe and the amount of time that
it's going to take to get extra equipment such as Apaches in, it could be
that Kosovo is effectively empty, as you've said in 10 days. Is NATO
strategy now to let them empty it, to be effectively a relief organisation
on the borders, and at the same time dramatically relax its rules of
engagement in Kosovo once the civilians are out of the way?

Air Commodore Wilby

Doug, let me take that first question, which as always is very pertinent
and right on the spot.

We weren't able to attack those troops yesterday. What I would say to you
is that if we were to see that sort of organisation going on, with a mix of
armour and troops very close, then I think we would have to think very
carefully about when we put our attacks in.

Jamie Shea

Doug, clearly, we want to stop the violence in Kosovo immediately, as soon
as we possibly can. It's our intention to stop it before the last Kosovar
Albania has been forced to leave and to turn off the lights as he or she
does so, that's absolutely clear.

As I mentioned on many occasions. President Milosevic began this campaign
of ethnic cleansing well before NATO dropped the first bomb. In fact, the
evidence is that it all started at least in the latest edition, in 1997,
even though the violence did not flair up in a systematic way until March
of last year and two thirds of the refugees were already refugees before
NATO initiated its action so this is a problem of resettlement which would
have had to have been dealt with by the international community in any way.
But clearly as much as we try to stop the violence on the ground. We are
faced with a situation where the Yugoslav forces with their tanks, with
their aircraft, with their artillery, are in the cities, in the villages,
pushing people out. But the most important thing is that at the end of the
day we should reverse this situation, and that those people should be able
to exercise their right to return and we should not accept the principle of
a wasteland in Kosovo in which the population would not be allowed to go back.

Let's look at the Yugoslav constitution on these matters, which is still in
effect.

Article 9, The Rights and Freedoms of Citizens Restricted Only by Equality
with Others.

Article 10, The Rights and Freedoms of Man and a Citizen Recognised under
International Law, Guaranteed.

Article 11, The Rights of National Minorities to Preserve, Foster and
Express their Ethnic, Cultural, Linguistic and other Peculiarities,
Guaranteed.

Article 17, A Citizen May Not be Deprived of His Citizenship, Deported from
the Country or Extradited to Another State.

Article 21, Human Life Shall be Inviolable. No Death Penalty.

Article 31, The Home Shall be Inviolable.

I won't mention Article 36, but if I did it would concern the Freedom of
the Press and other Public Information. So, we simply want to ensure that
Yugoslavia applies its own Constitution to its own people.

Question there, please.

Journalist

Thanks Jamie, 2 questions if I may. You have not been talking very much
about diplomacy, you have just been talking about strikes. Has anyone been
making any kind of effort or is Milosevic diplomatically isolated in this
matter? And second question, is there a new definition brought up by
Commissioner Bonino, that these are not refugees but deportees. Is that a
classification that NATO supports as well?

Jamie Shea

Well, let me, if I may, answer the second part of your question first.
Yes, Robin Cook has used the same term and they are deportees. They are
people who have been deported from their own country and right of
residence. Secondly, we prefer diplomacy in this Alliance. We always
prefer diplomacy to the use of force, which is the reason why we spent the
best part of the last year in diplomatic efforts. I have lost count of the
number of senior envoys from NATO and other countries that have visited
Belgrade and have tried to impress upon Milosevic our desire and the
rational preference for a diplomatic solution. The problem is that it is
Milosevic who doesn't seem to like diplomacy, quite frankly. As I have
said, he had a golden opportunity just a couple of days ago to avoid the
situation that he is now in, by signing a Peace Agreement at Rambouillet
which gave Serbia a great deal, as well as of course to the Kosovar
Albanians. But instead of negotiating, he stonewalled, wanted to re-open
everything, and then even before the talks had ended, signalled his
preference for a military solution by restarting his "clean and sweep"
operations in Kosovo. So, it takes two to tango and it takes two to
negotiate. But obviously, we would very much hope to start diplomacy as
quickly as we can. We have welcomed the efforts of Prime Minister
Primakov, the Papal Envoy and others in Belgrade, even since the NATO
campaign began, to try to persuade President Milosevic to meet the terms of
the International Community. And as you know, there is talk this week of
Contact Group Meetings, of G8 Meetings. And we would welcome any
initiative that would emerge from these meetings, again, to persuade
President Milosevic, even at this 11th and a half hour, to go the
diplomatic route. That is our overwhelming preference, and let's hope he
does so.

Charles.

NBC

Air Commodore, can you comment on certain reports that have been in the
press over the last few days, saying that this now is going to be an air
campaign that is going to have to go longer than had been previously
anticipated? Both politicians and military strategists have been quoted as
saying that. If that is the case to what kind of factor? And Jamie, you
mentioned yesterday about some quarter of a million refugees that you
thought were..... you were very concerned about ..... who may have been
trapped in, I think you called it the no-mans-land in the hills and
mountains and they hadn't eaten for some 48 hours. Is there any news on
them and are you any more inclined now to drop food to them, considering
the chance that that food may be picked up by Serb soldiers.

Air Commodore Wilby

As regarding the first part of your question, I am sorry to answer it in
the same way that I always do. There never has been a timeline to this
operation, and I think that it has been one of those campaigns that has
been a very dynamic campaign. And we must take it every day as it comes.

Jamie Shea

Charles, on the second part of your question. I have no update on the
parlous situation of those poor people, but obviously it only forces them
to move quickly to the borders, because at least once they have exited
Kosovo, they can receive humanitarian assistance. But of course we are
very preoccupied about their plight.

Charles, please.

The Times, London

Two questions Jamie. You've been talking about the International Force.
Last week you were talking more about a NATO-led force. Has there been an
evolution in the possible make-up of this force? The other question is
that Mr. Rogova has popped up again, this time with the Russian Ambassador,
and is asking NATO to stop bombing. Do you think that this was an old
film, or do you have any information on it.

Jamie Shea

Well thanks for those questions Charles. Coming from you, I was
anticipating them and I knew you would ask me good questions.

First of all. On the NATO-led force. No. Rambouillet makes it clear
that it is a NATO-led force. But it's an International Military Force to
the extent that we hope to be able to take on the job with other countries.
We have made it clear all along that we would like this to be a force
which represents the International Community in the broadest sense, just
like SFOR in Bosnia, you see a rainbow coalition, as it were, of over 30
countries, and many of our Partners have indicated already, a desire to be
part of that force and there is also a seat at the table for Russia too,
which we hope it will take up.

On Rogova, I think we are going to wait, quite frankly, until the end of
this conflict in Kosovo to learn all of the facts about Rogova and
therefore, I probably should reserve judgement. But I did notice that he
today, equally, said that he had asked the Serb Authorities to allow him to
leave and to travel abroad, although they seem to feel that his security is
better ensured by keeping him in Kosovo. So be it. But it would be nice
if Mr. Rogova could come here and stand where I am standing at the moment
and tell you what he really thinks and then you and I would both agree that
that would be the final version of the facts.

Let's go to the next question. Thomas there please.

Journalist

Thank you Jamie. In the view of NATO, President Milosevic is still a
partner to negotiate with even though he would appear on the list of
International Criminals in The Hague?

Jamie Shea

Well, I would not use the term partner to describe NATO's relationship with
President Milosevic. Let me simply say that he is the leader of his
country. And therefore, he is the person who controls the security forces.
And therefore, he is the person who orders them into action and orders
them to stop fighting. And so obviously, if we want the fighting in Kosovo
to stop, a telephone call from Mr., or President Milosevic's Palace has to
be made. As for what happens afterwards, well, that is of course up to his
own people and I don't want to comment on those developments.

Stephen, I think you had a question earlier.

Journalist

Two questions, if I may Jamie. One for the Air Commodore. I understand
there is a military logic, and there are military reasons for not telling
us what targets you are going to hit. But it's much harder for me to
understand that there are important security reasons for you not telling
us, for instance, what portion of the air defence has been destroyed. What
specific reason do you have for not telling us, for not giving us that
general assessment?

Question for Jamie. You said you didn't anticipate the scale and the
intensity of the ethnic cleansing and of the deportations but that
Milosevic is solely responsible. Should you not recognise the obvious fact
that the NATO air attacks have at least had the unintended effect of
worsening the situation in Kosovo, if only because the independent
observers had to leave in anticipation of the air campaign, thereby giving
the Serbs a free hand? Thank you.

Air Commodore Wilby

Your question is a very fair one, but I will reiterate that we are up
against an opponent with a very comprehensive intelligence-gathering
organisation and it would be wrong of us to state in the public forum what
we think we might have achieved. We might underestimate what we have
achieved and that might give him heart to continue. So really, any
judgement, any percentages, we are not prepared to release.

Jamie Shea

Let me try to answer that question because it is a fundamental one,
obviously.

The first thing is there are three and a half million people who have been
displaced by nationalism in the former Yugoslavia, most of it generated by
Milosevic since 1991. And for 99.999 per cent of that time, NATO has not
been conducting air operations. So the historical record is that President
Milosevic doesn't normally wait for force to be used against him before
either starting, or indeed accelerating, ethnic cleansing.

Second answer, or attempt at an answer, is that it's very difficult for
rational people in Western democracies to anticipate what irrational people
are going to do, particularly as President Milosevic is a rather silent
figure. He doesn't make many speeches. He doesn't give State of the Union
addresses to his Parliament. He doesn't produce government programmes as
such. And therefore, we don't quite know what he is intending to do and when.

Thirdly, we acted because we knew that this was going to happen, in the
sense that we had the beginnings of the latest "clean and sweep" operation,
particularly in Northern Kosovo, with an enormous build-up of forces, and
the signs that that was happening came about two weeks before NATO began
Operation Allied Force. So we knew that something was being prepared and
of course the signal that Milosevic had decided to go all out for a
military solution, on his conditions, came when Milatinovic and the other
Serb negotiators in the Avenue Kleber simply stonewalled. NATO acted very
quickly, very quickly indeed, following the end of the Paris negotiations.
Because we knew that it was at that that moment that we had to do what we
could to stop it. And at the end of the day you have to ask yourself. If
NATO was not acting would Milosevic show restrain? I don't believe so, and
I come back to the first part of my answer. The historical record is that
he doesn't seem to need the excuse of Allied intervention to drive people
from their homes.

And the second thing is, I'm convinced of one thing: even if NATO, or
nobody could stop this from happening, we can reverse it. And we can
ensure that refugees go home. And without our action I am convinced of one
thing: That all of the people leaving Kosovo at the moment would be
leaving it for ever and would remain refugees for the rest of their lives.

Craig.

New York Times

Question for Air Commodore Wilby. Can you give us some idea of the number
of targets that you hit yesterday? Or the number of planes that were
involved in bombing missions?

Air Commodore Wilby

We hit a comprehensive set of targets and we used quite a lot of aeroplanes.

Jamie Shea

Ok, I'm going to take one final question for today.

I think Dimitri. It should go to you.

Journalist

Question for the Air Commodore. There is quite widespread rumour ......a
and speculation in Moscow that there is certain connection channel between
NATO and Belgrade and by means of this channel NATO warns Belgrade about
the particular objects of strikes, and even that there is a certain list
which was handed .....a , list of strikes, of targets, which was handed to
Belgrade by NATO. Could you comment on this?

Air Commodore Wilby

I certainly hope that is not true.

Jamie Shea

Dimitri, I have no information on that.

Ladies and Gentlemen, we will stop there for today. A further briefing
of course at 3 p.m. tomorrow afternoon.